"Schools" snow plough tenders

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or here to go to Technical drawings of the Southern 4000 gallon "Schools" tender

A highly informative article from Newsletter No.35

As mentioned in the last Newsletter, two further "Schools" Class tenders, which had been converted for use as snow ploughs in the 1960s, arrived on the Bluebell Railway in late 1996. This encouraged two of our members to write to us on the subject since when other information has been obtained from other sources. While steam was still supreme, the Southern Region developed a policy of attaching large snowploughs to certain members of the C, 700 and Q Classes of 0-6-0 tender locomotives during the winter months. Two locomotives were coupled tender to tender with a snowplough at each end. With the phasing out of steam, it was decided to develop independent snowploughs, which were to be propelled by diesels. These were allocated departmental stock numbers in the series, which commenced with DS70000 in 1957. During 1964/65, Eastleigh worked on two series of independent snow ploughs, the first lot using tenders from withdrawn "Schools" Class locomotives. The second series, which does not concern us here, utilised tenders mainly from withdrawn Eastern Region V2 2-6-2s. On completion, this series was allocated to London Midland Region depots. For the first series, a total of eleven "Schools" Class tenders were set aside, T7Ol/ 6/15/23/29/30/1/3/4/8/9 but in the event T706/30/8 were not used and were scrapped. It should be noted that, when new, tenders T700-739 were coupled to locomotives 900-939 in that order e.g. tender T710 was coupled to locomotive 910, but it is to be expected that some changes took place down the years. One such change is definitely known about, locomotives 923 and 933 swapped tenders at a date unknown and there may have been others. Both of these tenders, T723 and T733, were later converted to snow ploughs. The departmental numbers allocated to the tenders later received the "A' prefix becoming ADS70xxx and also carried the wagon code ZZV The complete list of conversions is as under:

Notes

1. Until recently, stored in the Ashford Crane Shop but has been bought by the Port Line Project for use with 34028 "Eddystone".
2. As (1), stored in the Ashford Crane Shop until recently but has been bought by the Mid Hants Railway.
3. Bought by the Port Line Project for 34072 "257 squadron", this tender arrived on Bluebell Railway in May 1991. After almost complete dismantling, it was decided not to proceed. The wheelsets went to the Mid Hants Railway, frames to the "Manston" Group and the hornguides were retained by the Port Line Project.
4. This tender also arrived on the Bluebell Railway in May 1991 and is still in as delivered condition on the railway. It was originally purchased for use with U Class No.1638. Minor alterations were made for it to be used to clear icicles in Sharpthorne tunnel.
5. Originally purchased by the Port Line Project, this tender had suffered damage prior to withdrawal. Sold to the "Manston" Group.
6. Withdrawn after 1994 at an unknown date, this tender arrived on the Bluebell Railway late in 1996 and is currently being worked on for use with No.830.
7. As (6), this tender was withdrawn after 1994 at an unknown date and arrived on the railway late in 1996. It is currently being worked on for use with No.1638 as the tyres etc. are in better condition than (4) above.
8. Stored at North Woolwich, this tender is proposed for use with Merchant Navy "35010 Blue Star" which is at the Colne Valley Railway.

This article could not have been written without helpful assistance from members of the Society (chiefly Messrs. Gosling and Cupper) and also from non-members. However, the picture is incomplete so if you have any information to add to the above, I would be pleased to hear from you

..and here is an article extracted from Newsletter 36 with additional info

LETTERS

The article on "Schools" snow plough tenders in the last Newsletter generated some correspondence on this subject and also on the use of large buffer beam snow ploughs.

In a letter from Barry Fletcher of Edenbridge, he directed my attention to Derek Winkworth's book "The Schools 4-4-0s", published in 1982 by George Allen and Unwin in their Steam Past series. Pages 81 and 83 contain a great deal of information on tender swapping. Of the five tenders (T705 to 709) which had already done duty with "King Arthur" or "Lord Nelson" engines before being attached to the "Schools", three had changes and, to complete a varied career, T708 was transferred to S15 Class 30833 in May 1962 and, in June 1962, T712 was attached to S15 Class 30837. Of those converted to ploughs

He goes on to state that "It would seem that the tender number plates were removed during the conversion. Certainly, a photograph of a newly converted plough does not show the plate in position." No plates have been found on those purchased for restoration.

And from Alan Gosling the following:

Dear Mr Hawkins,

At Sheffield Park last weekend (this was written in July - Ed.) I undertook to see what notes there were in my records concerning the use of snowploughs with locomotives, following the article in Newsletter No.35.

Firstly, 700 Class 30368 (70D) was fitted with a large buffer beam plough and ran, I believe, on New Year's Day 1963 from Basingstoke to Salisbury and back to clear snowfalls. The locomotive was later stored and cut up at Eastleigh Works in 1963.

At Eastleigh, 700 Class 30316 (71A) and Q Class 30548 (71A) were fitted with similar large buffer beam ploughs coupled either end of a BR goods brake van for snowplough duties. They were photographed at the shed on 6/1/63 but it is doubtful if they were ever used as the snowfall was not deep in that area.

Incidentally, tender snowplough ADS70211 was still to be seen outside Ashford Crane Shop last Saturday (i.e. mid July - Ed.)

..and here is an article extracted from Newsletter 40 with additional info

"SCHOOLS" SNOW PLOUGH TENDERS - MORE INFORMATION

A fairly full article appeared in the Summer 1997 issue of the Society's Newsletter on the subject of Eastleigh's conversion of tenders from withdrawn "Schools" Class locomotives. At the time, information with regard to withdrawal dates for some of the conversions was not available but, thanks to information provided by a non-member, some of the gaps have now been filled.

ADS70210 - tender no. T723 - was withdrawn on 15/8/96.

ADS70227 - tender no. T729 - was withdrawn on 4/7/96.

ADS70228 - tender no. T734 - was withdrawn on 4/7/96.

It is ADS70228 which is currently being worked on for use with 1638.

Withdrawal date of ADS70211 is still unknown. At the time of the original article, it was thought to be stored in the Ashford Crane Shop but it was also thought that it had been bought by the Port Line Project for use with 34028 "Eddystone". Is there anyone out there with the missing information?

IAN HAWKINS

..and here is a piece from Newsletter 41 with more info

"Schools" snowplough tenders

Dear Ian,

Thank you for another interesting MLS Newsletter. Regarding the "Schools" tenders, although I do not know the precise withdrawal date of ADS 70211, I can confirm it is currently at Southern Locomotives' base at Sellindge. The enclosed photograph was taken there on 29th. August 1999.

Simon Troy of Southern Locos has told me that it was withdrawn in 1997/98 and they acquired 70211 and 70212 from Ashford in 1998. The other one (70212) was broken up after removal of the axleboxes.

Snowplough tender ADS70277 (formerly attached to "Schools" Class No. 931) at Sellindge, Kent in August 1999

PETER NICHOLSON

I hope this is of interest and would appreciate the return of the photo when finished with, thanks.

With best wishes.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Nicholson

(The reference to ADS70212 appears to be a mistake as this number was allocated to Maunsell coach No. 1386 which was converted to departmental use on 11/7/64 and withdrawn 14/12/74. Perhaps this should be read as ADS70210 which, in 1997, was earmarked for use with 34028 "Eddystone". Latest news on ADS70211 is that its withdrawal date was 8/9/98 - Ed.)

An informative general Maunsell tender article from Newsletter No.43

MAUNSELL'S TENDERS - PART 1

Maunsell’s only tender locomotive designs for the South Eastern and Chatham Railway were the N Class 2-6-0 and its derivative, the 3-cylinder N1. For these, a neat 6-wheeled tender was produced of 3500 gallon water and 5 ton coal capacities, on a 13ft. wheelbase with 4ft. diameter wheels. It was straight-sided and in this, as well as other respects, showed Midland Railway ancestry, James Clayton, the Chief Locomotive Draughtsman, having joined the Maunsell team from Derby. In all, 16 were built (Nos. 810 to 825- the N1 was 822). This locomotive design was adopted by Woolwich Arsenal for production in the early 1920s and 50 units were purchased by the then new Southern Railway (No. 826 to 875).

The first Maunsell locomotive design for the Southern Railway was the modification of the London and South Western Railway’s Urie N15 Class express passenger 4-6-0, which came to be known popularly as the “King Arthurs”. No new tender design was produced for these, the first 10, the “Eastleigh Arthurs” (Nos. 448 to 457), taking the watercart tenders from Drummond’s very unsuccessful 4-6-0s, which the new engines replaced. The 30 “Scotchmen” (Nos. (Nos. E793 to E806) were given tenders identical to the Ns except that they were fitted for left hand drive. As the Eastern Section buffing gear was at a higher level than the Western, the rear end of the locomotives had to be modified to fit these tenders which precluded any exchanging of tenders with the rest of the Class. Quite apart from the shorter runs on the Brighton line requiring less water capacity, the Central Section turntables were generally smaller than elsewhere, so it was not possible to turn engines with bogie tenders. Even then, the table at New Cross Gate was shorter still, so that all principal services involving London Bridge station remained in the hands of the Brighton Baltics or Atlantic tender engines.

Originally the batch of “Brighton Arthurs” was authorised as 15 express units but, in the event, only 14 were built and the last of the 15, which would have been No. E807 was allotted to the prototype of the long awaited Maunsell design for heavy passenger traffic - No. E850 “Lord Nelson”. For this, a straight-sided (or “Ashford”) variant of the Urie design of bogie tender was produced.

The situation then became very complicated as a result of an extraordinary series of orders over the next decade when batches of locomotives and tenders were deliberately built although it was never intended they should run together. The start of this was due to the fact that 10 more “King Arthurs” (Nos. E808 to E817) had been authorised for the Kent Coast services and these were to be provided with 4000 gallon tenders. The necessity for such capacity was later proved when, after the Brighton electrification, the 3500 gallon “King Arthurs” were transferred to the Eastern Section and were unable to complete the journey from Victoria to Ramsgate without a refill. However, this order was cancelled in favour of 10 more “Nelsons” (Nos. to E860), partly probably because the Faversham-Margate-Ramsgate section would not be available for such heavy locomotives until 1929.

In 1927, there was quite lengthy correspondence in “The Sunday Times” decrying the large size of tenders with which many locomotives were equipped. This may, to some degree, have been...

..aimed at the LNER Pacifies but, primarily, it was yet another knock at the Southern Railway, so often the butt of press criticism in those days. Incidentally, this was soon after the Great Western had decided that its previous standard 3500 gallon tender was no longer large enough, even with water troughs, and subsequent major locomotives were built with 4000 gallon ones throughout the rest of the Collett regime.

Anyway, it appears that some members of the Southern Railway Board of Directors were sensitive to this newspaper criticism and management came to admit that bogie tenders were necessary only on the Western Section. This batch of “Nelsons” was therefore built along with the original order for 4000 gallon tenders of 6-wheel design. This was of the same wheelbase and straight-sided as the earlier type but both wider and deeper, the less deep frame being solid instead of having cut-outs. It was to become the standard, with minor variations, for all later 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 construction. Only two “Nelsons” actually acquired these tenders, Nos. E852/3, the others going behind 8 of the Eastern Section batch of “King Arthurs”, Nos. to E772. only No. E767 and No. E769escaping initially.

In 1927. Eastleigh turned out two batches of Maunsellised S15 Class mixed traffic 4-6-0s (Nos. E823 to E837). The first 10 were proveided with Urie type bogie tenders but the other five were given straight-sided ones, identical to “Lord Nelson”. These last then went to “Nelsons” Nos. E851, E854 to E857 when they were built, their places being taken by some of those discarded from the “King Arthurs”. The other three ex-“King Arthur” tenders went behind some of the first hatch of S15s, which in turn gave up their Urie tenders to “Nelsons” Nos. E858 to E860. The reason for this and other, later, double exchanges does not appear to have been recorded. All this had happened by early 1929 but at the end of that year. by which time it was thought not to be a good idea to have two “Nelsons” with non-standard sized tenders, as they couldn’t be transferred to Western Section duties if needed there, they had received Urie tenders from the remaining two Eastern Section “King Arthurs”, though there was no direct swap. All very complicated but so far so good!!

Arthur Ll. Lambert

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